<vkolovski> hi all
<DanC> oops... meeting time is already here and I neglected to grab lunch
<DanC> ACTION: Tim to get Vlad cwm CVS access (9/28: Vlad appplies for W3C passwrord)
<vkolovski> usename:vkolovsk
<DanC> ScribeNick: scribe
<DanC> tim, your "meeting coordinates" duplicates my "1. Convene"
<DanC> did you make it this far, timbl? http://www.w3.org/Systems/Accounts/w3t/
<DanC> (hmm... "Need for deep unification in nested formulae" is really separate from A. cwm-pychinko integration ?)
<vkolovski> |i|iiii|ii|ii|ii|ii^
<vkolovski> - =vii|i|ii|iii|ii|ii|i|i|i|ii|ii|i|i|ii|i|i|i|ii|ii|iiv
<vkolovski> - ^iii|i|ii|i|iii|i|iii|i|i|ii|iii|ii|ii|iiii|i|i|i>`
<vkolovski> - ^iiiii|i|ii|i|iii|i|iiii|i|ii|i|i|ii|ii||ii|iii>`
<vkolovski> - =ii|iii|ii|ii|i|ii|i|ii|ii|i|iii|i|i|ii|ii|v
<vkolovski> - -~iii|ii|ii|i|ii|ii|i|ii|ii|i|ii|iii|iii>~
<timbl> ~/.ssh/id-rsa.pub
<vkolovski> - -<iiii|iii|ii|ii|ii|ii|iii|ii|iii"
<vkolovski> - ^iiiii|i|i|ii|ii|i|i|iiii>`
<vkolovski> - ^^^^^^iixi>^^^^^`
<vkolovski> thats not it
<vkolovski> ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAIEAuTmnhM2HVFqa+0y2F9cLXIOozu7udKq1/U0Y/z3rsVGzoL2PE9zbdZy7Q0Q03XtA/vK63WrvodN0rXsp2PSaql/x0wqbEk1GWUJn82WgluGtQCuKuGK+nVMT/VbBrCM6yJfwEqN1ugxIgE1gwFzHQxXIKxm/xREdQeYRHYLwX/s= kolovski@gimli.mindlab.umd.edu
<vkolovski> kolovski@cs.umd.edu
<scribe> ACTION: YK to schedule a meeting with TimBL and Bijan to discuss n3 semantics
eikeon_: Bijan's around, but still writing...
<DanC> next meeting: 26 Oct?
TimBL: i think I'm available... my mac is thinking hard about it...
<DanC> ... yes
<timbl> Ok for 26th: Timbl, DanC, Vlad, DanielK
<DanC> yup, me too
<DanC> expected: Yosi, Yarden aka Jordan, Eikeon aka Dan K, Vlad, DanC, TimBL
<timbl> Hi Yosi, How are you? Are you joining us?
<timbl> Or just lurking on IRC. Either is OK
<yosi_s> I'm trying to figure out how to use my mother's Mac
<yosi_s> I'll be gone soon
eikeon_: started linking rdflib/mindlab... working on storage issues...
<yosi_s> what irc clients for the mac exist?
<DanC> I use xchat aqua. I think timbl uses colloqy?
eikeon_: some test engineering
<eikeon_> yosi_s, Colloquy is pretty nice
<eikeon_> So is xchat
vkolovski: ... formula stuff... [ which seems like substantive discussion for the agenda... I'm struggling to go with the flow here...]
<DanC> I would find it easier to listen if I had something to stare at. Pointer to test case that you're working on for log:includes, vkolovski ?
TimBL: sounds like you've done log:semantics and log:includes is in progress, vkolovski
<DanC> tests first! tests first! ;-)
<vkolovski> (one sec, checking in the tests now)
<DanC> http://www.policyawareweb.org/2005/demo/pfproxy.py
<vkolovski> this is the type of the test i used { (3 6) math:sum ?x. "C:\Documents and Settings/kolovski/My Documents/mindswap/Policy Aware Web/pychinko/pychinko/groundtests/semanticsTest.n3" log:semantics ?f.
<vkolovski> ?f log:includes { [ <http://cwmTest/hasValue> "2" ] }
<vkolovski> }
<eikeon_> http://groups.csail.mit.edu/dig/2005/09/rein/examples/troop42-policy.n3#policy1
<vkolovski> it's checked in (unfortunately points to a local file, i;ve checked in the local file, too though)
<vkolovski> also, quantifiers.n3 in the rules dir
<timbl> Great.
<DanC> * ACTION: TimBL to work on --why toward log:includes, log:conclusion for rein
<DanC> ACTION: TimBL to work on --why toward log:includes, log:conclusion for rein [CONTINUES]
TimBL: worked on that a bit...
<timbl> http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/test/includes/t7.n3
<DanC> w3ccvs/WWW/2000/10/swap$ cvs update -d test
<DanC> cvs update: nothing known about test
<DanC> phpht
<timbl> cwm t7.n3 --think --why --base=foo > ,t7p.n3
<DanC> (I wish for a set of slides on the reason vocab)
<timbl> python $SWAP/check.py -v99 < ,t7p.n3
<DanC> ImportError: No module named swap.myStore
<DanC> phpht
<DanC> $ PYTHONPATH=$swap/.. python $swap/check.py -v99 < ,t7p.n3
<DanC> Proof failed: In Conjunction foo:_g_L16C7, evidence foo:_g_L18C32 could not be proved.
<DanC> Proof invalid.
TimBL: it doesn't matter that
log:falsehood isn't spelled right
... original meaning: formulas with different names of
variables are different formulas
... however, for proof verification, this is not a correct
assumption
Danc: I dont know what is meant by a valid proof-step
<vkolovski> DanC and TimBL proof-step discussion
<timbl> ACTION: Tim add reason:gives to *every* proof step including a parsing
<DanC> According to latest word from the WSDL WG, the (standard) URI for our
<DanC> interface will be...
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/#wsdl.interface(SparqlQuery)
<DanC> has to be written out long-hand in RDF/XML and N3, as it ends in )
<DanC> C. IRI References for WSDL 2.0 Components (Non-Normative) http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-wsdl20-20050803/#wsdl-iri-references
<DanC> Web Services Description in RDF
<DanC> Editors' draft 22 August 2005
<DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2005Sep/att-0046/wsdl-rdf.html__charset_ISO-8859-2
<DanC> [[
<DanC> An application working with the RDF representation of WSDL can reconstruct the names of the components by reversing the process that resulted in the component designator, for example for a URI http://example.com/service#wsdl.interfaceOperation(TicketInterface/BookTicket) we could reconstruct that the name of the interface is "TicketInterface" in the namespace http://example.com/service and that the operation is named "BookTicket". Such decomposit
<DanC> ion is only valid, though, if the URI http://example.com/service identifies a document of MIME media type application/wsdl+xml, as explained above.
<DanC> ]]
<timbl> http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/reason
<timbl> ooops
TimBL: I hope to write in RDF and convert to WSDL, but with names like that, it won't work.
DanC: that's an interesting requirement
TimBL: it may fall down in other areas
<eikeon_> re: n3 in rdflib -- http://rdflib.net/n3/
<eikeon_> http://rdflib.net/n3/
eikeon: store can support nested
contexts
... contexts same as formulae
<timbl> http://rdflib.net/rdf_store/
TimBL: formula is a set of statements, context is the relationship b/t the statements and their containing formula
<eikeon_> http://svn.rdflib.net/trunk/rdflib/store/__init__.py
DanC: isnt formula == quoted statement == quoted graph?
<vkolovski> eikeon: yeah, they're all graphs
<DanC> [[
<DanC> I've just put up some materials for tomorrow's presentation on the TMS:
<DanC> http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/~cph/6.898/
<DanC> ]]
TimBL: cwm started off as
"context-aware", but as soon as we started adding rules we had
to move on and become "formula-aware"
... with context-aware you dont get the benefit about being
able to talk about nested formulae
<DanC> hmm... "Number of statements in the store." I'd rather that weren't part of the store interface. RDF Core WG did all its work without ever answering the question "how many triples?"
<eikeon_> http://rdflib.net/n3/
<timbl> . log:rawType
<timbl> is a built-in
<DanC> is it documented? actually, yes. http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/doc/CwmBuiltins
<DanC> _:A => _: B. # very different from { as ap ao } => { bs bp bo }
<timbl> { as ap ao } => { bs bp bo }
<DanC> <#A> = { as ap ao } # give an identifier for a formula
<timbl> :policy1 = { as ap ao }
<DanC> :identifier = 2.0 # both sides have the value that's one higher than 1
<vkolovski> (unfortunately, I'll have to leave soon)
<DanC> { { weather is rainy } => { you need _:rideHome } a log:Truth; = :rule1.
<DanC> { { weather is rainy } => { you need _:rideHome } } a log:Truth; = :rule1.
<DanC> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/scribe-bot/rdfn3chat.py
<DanC> ^ a client for a store that groks rules
<vkolovski> sorry all, I have to leave
<DanC> I'm _not_ going to do anything about the record today. I'd appreciate if somebody else sent it to cwm-talk or something
TimBL: ready to close, next meeting 26 Oct?
DanC: note we're supposed to have this whole thing done 28 Oct.
TimBL: hmm...
DanC: let's hope to bump into
each other in #swig between now and then
... weds is better for me than other days
(and Thu and Fri, too)
<timbl> ADJOURNED